The fight for freedom starts with our consciousness. From Black Panther organizing in Georgia to mutual aid, community defense, and Buddhist practice, Deputy Chairwoman Cam of the Black Panthers Party for Intercommunal Solidarity, Georgia chapter, breaks down their successful model for revolutionary change. Cam explains the party’s mission of black self-determination, the meaning behind “death to imperialism, life to freedom,” and why their work begins with helping people reclaim their own power.
How mutual aid actually works on the ground, from free taco Fridays to neighborhood support tables
Why the group organizes through “pods” for food, legal aid, patrols, and community defense
What it means to protect a community without escalating violence
How ICE, poverty, and political control are felt in real neighborhoods, not just headlines
Why meditation, human connection, and awareness are treated as forms of liberation
Cam also shares her personal path - from generational trauma and military service to years in Thailand, where Buddhism helped her understand how to hold pain without letting it define her. Freedom is not something handed down by institutions, it is something people learn to build together. This conversation connects activism, consciousness, mutual aid, and the practical realities of organizing.
Transcript:
Jack (00:00)
welcome everybody. I’m here with Deputy Chairwoman Cam, Comrade Cam. So first I want to give you a chance to tell people how to find you guys you’re you’re with the Black Panthers Party for Intercommunal Solidarity, Georgia chapters. So how do people find
Comrade Cam (00:15)
Yeah.
Jack (00:16)
you?
Comrade Cam (00:16)
the best way to find us is by either going to our Instagram page. we have a Black Panther Party Instagram page for each of our chapters. or honestly you could find us out and about. we’re usually in the middle of Atlanta, we’re usually in the metro area, doing distributions patrols, so you’ll see us.
Jack (00:39)
And then one more plug before we get into the actual meat and potatoes, how can people support you?
Comrade Cam (00:45)
you can support us by going to our Instagram page. We’ve got a donation link that goes towards all of our chapters. and we’ve also got a special QR code that we use for our mutual aid projects that we work on here in Atlanta and Georgia.
Jack (01:00)
the official mission statement is the establishment of black self-determination and intercommunal solidarity via an intercommunal underground railroad.
Jack (01:08)
That’s the independent buying, selling, and trading of goods and services and the propaganda, free sharing of information completely independent and safe from capitalists, fascists, imperialists, and racists. Death to imperialism, life to freedom. So can you expand
Comrade Cam (01:23)
Death imperialism, life and freedom.
Jack (01:25)
can you please expand on the mission statement?
Comrade Cam (01:28)
I can
Comrade Cam (01:29)
you can look back at our history and see that we’ve got almost every single group of human beings suffering at the hands of power, at the hands of greed, at the hands of ignorance, and we fall victim to that generation after generation. The whole point of our mission statement is to make people understand that our well being, our existence, everything about our lives is really in our hands. It’s in our
Comrade Cam (01:58)
our power to change, to implement something, to make it better. we want that for all black men, women and children. we want that for all oppressed people. but the main thing that we want people to understand is our our ability to do that is completely up to us. When we say death to imperialism, we’re not talking about people necessarily. We’re talking about a system.
Comrade Cam (02:27)
that has existed for so very long, for so many generations, that really needs to end. And life to freedom is really just a call to all human beings to say, It’s time for you to stand up and it’s time for you to take action yourself. It’s time for us to work together and start working on the future that we want to have, on the life that we deserve to have, and realize the power that we have altogether.
Jack (02:57)
I’ve goosebumps, we could cut the whole podcast right there. Perfect. No, like I really like what stood out is people taking the power and imperialism has taught us that we it kind this kind of learned helplessness. how was that evolution for you? Did you feel powerless and was joining Black Panthers a a you know, a way to gain
Jack (03:21)
To find your power.
Comrade Cam (03:22)
You know, I think being a person of color, whether you’re black or indigenous or if you’re of Asian descent or whatever, you have a lot of stories in your family that kinda give you this idea of like something’s wrong. Something’s wrong, something’s happened in my family and I can’t understand, you know, as a child what it is. And as a child I grew up around my mom’s family. My mom
Comrade Cam (03:51)
is actually a member of the Kushada Nation in Louisiana.
Comrade Cam (03:54)
and well she’s passed on now, sorry, but my grandmother was actually a victim at a very young age of the when they would steal children, she was a stolen child. I had no idea what that meant. my grandmother just displayed herself as a perfect Catholic, you know, perfect Sunday school mom. And I thought everything was fine, but I realized that she had such deep
Comrade Cam (04:19)
Hidden pain.
Jack (04:19)
What
Jack (04:20)
can you exp what what does stolen child mean?
Comrade Cam (04:24)
stolen children were children who were indigenous and were forced into either boarding schools or honestly like a kind of s concentration camp that they were meant to indoctrinate children, make them assimilate into white American culture, to be palatable for white people, to lose your your language, your name, your hair, your culture and everything, strip that and replace it with what they thought was appropriate.
Jack (04:52)
I was just just writing about my own life and so when I was eight, I was adopted from China to the US and I was just writing how I stepped on a plane and I lost everyone everyone I lost my parents, my grandparents, all of my friends, my community, everyone. And before that I lost my name. It was on the train going to Beijing. We were gonna fly out and my dad was sit has sat me and he’s like, What do you want your name to be in America? Because my Chinese name apparently was not
Jack (05:20)
You know, they they thought I needed a different name to exist in America. So I had read Jack and the Beanstalk, so I picked Jack and that is how like that is my name now. And my and Jones is just the surname of my adopted mother’s ex-husband. So I have no connection to that that surname either. So I lost my name and then about two years later I completely forgot Andarin. So I lost my language. So, you know, what you said that like really resonates and like for me, my entire life, like that
Jack (05:49)
set the direction for my entire life and
Comrade Cam (05:51)
Yeah.
Jack (05:52)
and I can imagine for your grandmother ‘cause she must have lost her whole family kind of in a similar way, right? Like they’re taken out and just
Comrade Cam (06:00)
Yes, she had
Comrade Cam (06:01)
eight sisters, so everybody eventually they made it back, but they were never the same. You know, they were never the same. And I feel like this that you know, growing up and realizing that that’s what happened to her. and that’s why she had so much pain and she hid and that’s why she wanted everything to be perfect and put so much pressure on me. those kinds of stories, like your story, Jack, I I I wanna say
Comrade Cam (06:28)
those things kinda force us to realize, hey, something’s really wrong in the world because she wouldn’t have chosen to do that. People don’t usually choose pain like that. And how do I stop this generational pain? You know, her pain resonated with my mom. It just echoed. So you get to a point and you’re thinking, I really want this to stop. You know, I was also in the military and there’s so much pain from that for the whole world.
Comrade Cam (06:57)
you realize that you’re part of that and you can actually stop that. and then honestly, like I said, people all around you know, all the places I’ve been, all the traveling I’ve done, whether it’s been through the military or just on my own, or just here in this country, y you see a lot of pain just being echoed. Those kinds of stories can help you realize there’s an echo and it can stop, it can be silenced.
Comrade Cam (07:26)
it can be transformed into something else. So it’s for me I think watching my my own family and hearing the echo and looking around and seeing that I’m not the only one that is from a family like this. You know, everywhere I go I keep seeing these echoes and I wanted to know what is causing that, what’s my part in that and my part is I can stop.
Jack (07:51)
I’ve been lucky to be able to do a lot of traveling in like the last decade and there the people that haven’t been outside of the US like can’t comprehend how much pain and suffering exists
Jack (08:04)
just existing in the US, like it is a completely different world to step outside and realize, like, wow, like there are people that are just living without this existential dread hanging over their heads. what did you do in the military? What what did you find as the answer?
Comrade Cam (08:21)
well some things in the military I’m really not proud about.
Comrade Cam (08:27)
You know, I come from a military family, so I really just thought I’d be a good daughter, I’d be a good person.
Comrade Cam (08:38)
I would be doing something for other people. I knew that I wanted to do something for other people. and I was a linguist as well. but that it didn’t end up being what I wanted it to be. I didn’t end up helping anybody like that. I just ended up seeing that I was a part of something that caused so much pain and destruction and I couldn’t fix that.
Jack (09:10)
Yeah, and I think that’s such a common story is that young people genuinely think that you know, they wanna help, they wanna be part of something good, and that energy is taken by you know, by the propaganda, by the military industrial complex and just transformed into something so harmful and
Comrade Cam (09:34)
Well, they really convince a lot of people. You know, they convince a lot of black people too, right? A lot of people of color that if you do this, this is a good way for you to support your family, this is a good way out, you know, we’ll take care of you. and I think that’s why my grandfathers took that route. I think that’s why my parents took that route. and they saw it as a a real a just a solid path through life.
Jack (10:00)
just from the material standpoint, part of the reason I joined was to get pay for school because I didn’t have any other way to to pay for school. And, you know, it gives you healthcare, I think back the thought of rejoining the military was this comforting thing for so much of my life because I thought, well, if life gets bad enough, at least I have this option and it’s like
Jack (10:19)
It’s because, you know, under under our capitalist system, right, intentionally deprived of these of security so that then there’s this willing pool of of volunteers. So any anyway.
Comrade Cam (10:32)
Yeah, we’re
Comrade Cam (10:33)
kinda bred to believe that this is of this is pietas, right? This is what someone does when they truly care about other people here in this country. You give your life for it. I just don’t want to give my life like that.
Jack (10:47)
Thank you for for sharing and being yeah, being so open.
Jack (10:52)
so w when you were traveling what did you what did you find as the route
Comrade Cam (10:55)
honestly just ignorance. It was ignorance, you know. I remember when I just wanted to leave. I just wanted to go far away. I didn’t want to phone anymore, I didn’t want to talk anymore. I wanted to go somewhere I didn’t know anything about. So I chose Phuket, Thailand.
Jack (11:16)
okay, yeah. I love Thailand.
Comrade Cam (11:18)
They had elephants, they had
Comrade Cam (11:21)
apes, I wanted to work with animals. I would never have had the chance to do that here. so I thought, let me try over there. I actually went to university in Phuket, at Prince of Song Cla University.
Comrade Cam (11:36)
and I didn’t know any time. I didn’t know anything. I did like zero research on my way. I just knew I was going. So I made
Jack (11:45)
Wait, did you study
Jack (11:45)
in Thai?
Comrade Cam (11:48)
our degree was Southeast Asian Studies. So actually Songkla Principal Song Kla took us I mean, they took us to Indonesia, they took students to Vietnam, to Korea. I mean I never would have had the same opportunity to to do that year after year as part of our program and here. but that’s what they did for us and they they really took care of us and honestly I learned Thai pretty quick. So
Jack (12:15)
Yeah.
Comrade Cam (12:17)
I had to the the more I walked through the markets, the more I spent time watching the water, the more I realized a lot of what I worried about, a lot of what was holding me back and the pain I was holding it, it was my choice to hold it. I didn’t know any better. I didn’t know how to let it go in a way. I didn’t know how to hold it properly. How about that?
Comrade Cam (12:43)
Sometimes we w we say we wanna let it go, but it’s not going anywhere, it’s just in your mind. It can’t really go anywhere. So you’ve got to hold it properly. And that’s what I I learned how to do through my teachers. They they’re the ones who basically slap that into me and said, Look, you’re not holding this properly, you’re not looking at it. You wanna let it go, you wanna run away, but you can’t. And you’ve got to have somebody to show you that’s the path. You know.
Comrade Cam (13:11)
That’s the path out of it. It’s getting out of your own ignorance. Being open and looking and holding all of those things properly. And if we could do that as a society, I really think that we could change this world.
Jack (13:26)
I agree a hundred percent. I tell all my friends, it’s like we can have a physical revolution, we can overthrow, you know, all of the tyrants, but if the people’s consciousness doesn’t change, it’s just gonna be a new set of new set of tyrants, right? Because ultimately it’s greed and and the lust for power and it just craving, right? It’s this uncraving that
Comrade Cam (13:49)
Exactly.
Jack (13:50)
can never never be satisfied.
Jack (13:52)
you see it. People well intentioned, good people, they gain power, they gain money, and now their interests are different and the and their actions are different. And it’s like, you know, it would require such a strong principled mind to to resist the temptations and the cravings and
Jack (14:11)
Yeah, so was that where you were introduced to Buddhism in Thailand?
Comrade Cam (14:16)
my my grandfather was in the military and they would travel on a lot of places. So did my parents. And we had all these little things from around the world and I wanted to go somewhere so badly. I would watch National Geographic all the time and say, I’m gonna go there, I’m gonna go there and like
Jack (14:33)
Yeah.
Comrade Cam (14:34)
there was a Buddha, not the Siddhartha Gautama from India, but what we always see in
Comrade Cam (14:43)
markets and artwork and stuff, the larger Buddha. This one is from China. Yes.
Jack (14:46)
Fat little guy. Yeah, okay.
Comrade Cam (14:48)
she had one on her dress room and I loved it so much. She called me Buddha all the time. And I thought, well I kinda know what that is. I thought who is that? And I think I started reading some of the books that she brought back. and the first one I read was Old Path White Clouds by Tik Nan Han. So
Jack (15:07)
yeah.
Comrade Cam (15:08)
I knew something about Tik Nan Han. I wanted to go to Palm Village. I wanted to
Comrade Cam (15:13)
to I wanted to talk to him, but I wanted to listen to him. and I wanted to just try that because I thought mm the Noble Eightfold Path is for me. I can see all of these paths. This one is the one I want to walk.
Jack (15:28)
lay out the timeline of kind of learning from TikTok Hun, learning from Plum Village, and then becoming you know, member, becoming organizer, becoming active, an activist, you know, like what’s that timeline like?
Comrade Cam (15:43)
I think many years. You know, I spent over six years in Thailand. I spent about ten years abroad. And then when I came back to America it was after the after Donald Trump had come in and after the Black Lives Matter protests and everything, I was kind of away for all that. I was far away.
Jack (16:06)
Why
Jack (16:06)
why come back?
Comrade Cam (16:08)
well I have two sons and it was time for me to choose, you know, what kind of school they were gonna go in. And it had just kinda been us us three. Yeah, I was just taking my kids all over the place. We were in Oman, we were in China, you know, I had been divorced and thought this might be a good way for me to work on something stable for them. ‘cause you know, with visas and everything it can be really hard. So that’s why we came back.
Comrade Cam (16:38)
came to Georgia and their grandparents are here so there’s that. and then started watching more about what was going on with ICE. I saw them take people and I thought I
Jack (16:54)
Like you in person you saw them.
Comrade Cam (16:56)
Yeah, we have seen in Georgia. I’ve seen more than once. I just watching what they were doing and I thought, I don’t think I can just sit here.
Comrade Cam (17:07)
You know, I don’t know when they’re gonna decide to take my son. He wasn’t even born here. He was born in Phuket. And I thought, what can I do? I didn’t know what to do. I started out with lots of different grassroots organizations that were pretty good. I just thought, I’m not doing enough. You know, I am holding a sign, I’m I’m shouting, I’m yelling, I am showing up at city council meetings. I got kicked out of one. So
Jack (17:35)
Good for you.
Comrade Cam (17:37)
I got kicked out of the one with Marjorie Taylor Green. but that was
Jack (17:40)
Okay, good for you.
Comrade Cam (17:41)
the first time I saw like they tased a man because he booed her. That’s all he did. And then another person stood up. He called her a liar because she was lying. And they threw him to the ground. They dragged another man outside and tased him. And I could hear him screaming. And nobody was doing anything. And I thought, This ain’t enough.
Comrade Cam (18:07)
That’s not enough. They’re they’re getting to a place where they can do almost anything to us if they wanted to. And I’m watching it and I just couldn’t believe what I was watching.
Jack (18:18)
I feel that same every day. It’s like this isn’t enough. Like making videos is is not enough. So
Jack (18:28)
well how do you feel now?
Comrade Cam (18:30)
I always feel like I can’t do enough. we do have our chapter here, we all work really hard. But we see that we’re just a few, you know. Even even if it was our entire party, it’s not enough. And I realize my organizer friends all feel like that. We’re all tired. They all do something. And they always feel like it’s not enough because we keep seeing what’s going on. It feels like we’re forever the little
Comrade Cam (19:00)
you know, the little fish or you know, going up against a Goliath or something,
Comrade Cam (19:05)
That’s why I think it’s really important for us to start working on our community. Start start with you know, I’m not asking legislators and council members to hear me anymore. Obviously either you don’t. When I go and you kick me out or tase my community members or sit there in silence, it’s you’re not hearing me. I’m talking to the wrong people. Everybody behind me sitting up there who’s angry about a data center.
Comrade Cam (19:34)
Or angry that we found somebody lynched a or something like that. Those are the people who I need to talk to. They actually showed up, they care. And we’re all together. There’s so many more of us. I don’t need five seats to listen to me. I need my community to listen to me. We’ve all got something.
Jack (19:52)
So that was that’s the main thing I want to learn from you how do we take this feeling of I want to do something into effective action? what is effective action people that are watching this that we really need to speak to will be the ones that are
Jack (20:13)
That are outraged at what’s happening, they keep very on top of the news, maybe they repost stuff, maybe they make their own things, but that’s that’s the extent. So how do we take that into the next step? Because I I I say get organized, but like what does that mean? You know, how what do you do? What what are the what are the concrete steps?
Comrade Cam (20:28)
Yeah. And then the street.
Comrade Cam (20:31)
You’re right. Malcolm X said we’re not outnumbered, we’re out organized. How are we even gonna do that? You know, I think that one good place to start if I’m talking to organizers is start talking to each other about a strategic plan where you your plan involves everything and is comprehensive from wellness, self sustainable living, for growing food, alleviating immediate problems like
Comrade Cam (21:00)
you know, rental assistance or getting rides to doctor’s appointments and schools, neighborhood patrols, everything in a comprehensive plan that is accessible and and available to the community members. So that doesn’t mean, you know, holding an event at a big conference center or something. It means going into an apartment complex, going into, you know, a small neighborhood and
Comrade Cam (21:29)
Going door to door talking to people and saying, Hey, we got a meeting, we want you to be involved with it, and we want to talk about how you can be part of this, you know, make it accessible for people and talk to them about how they can play a role in that. You know. we have ourselves a plan that we have developed, and within that plan we’ve got different pods. So each pod is responsible for something, whether it’s mutual aid.
Comrade Cam (21:56)
legal assistance for our community members or if it’s even defense and neighborhood patrol. So each of those pods has room for people who want to volunteer to help monitor and then people who want to volunteer, period. that way you’ve got a kind of revolving door of community members who maybe they’re available in the morning, or maybe they’re available in the evening or in the afternoon, but you’ve got people in the community
Comrade Cam (22:24)
who are involved in some way helping each other and it’s a kind of you know ever growing revolving door so it doesn’t go away it’s sustainable in that way. But the
Jack (22:35)
So I wanna
Jack (22:36)
ask about the the community defense, but first I wanna ask more about the the mutual aid. your quality of life program. So I I think just someone completely new, what does it mean to do mutual aid? What does that look like, you know, just on the ground?
Comrade Cam (22:53)
I would say first of all, mutual aid is you and your neighbors giving to each other. You know, it’s not necessarily a charity. Everybody needs help, first of all. So it’s for us, you know, reaching out, going directly into the community and providing essential needs, resources and talking to people. mutual aid isn’t just a tangible thing, it’s a conversation that you have. You know, it’s the opportunity to connect with the people in your
Comrade Cam (23:23)
in your community. and I think one of my favorites is our we do a free taco Friday. and we do that with our partner or they’re called Creative Collaboration. C three is their nickname and I love working with them ‘cause we both care about our community. We know everybody’s names and they know our names and I know who doesn’t like spicy salsa and I know who likes beef and chicken. Like
Comrade Cam (23:51)
That’s the point of mutual aid is that you you’re not just helping somebody get a meal, find a piece of furniture that they need, you know, get paper towels and you know, essentials, but you’re getting to know each other. You’re you’re building the human connection that we need to make better decisions about our community and to make sure that our community members aren’t falling behind. but our event is always it’s awesome.
Comrade Cam (24:20)
You know, everybody comes out, we talk, we laugh, they they eat, we we have essentials like toothbrushes, you know, toiletries, clothing and everything else. and more and more people keep coming because we just we build trust with each other, you know what I mean? they talk to us about things that I was never able to learn about in the classroom.
Comrade Cam (24:44)
And they talk to us about their experiences and how they view life and it’s just a really beautiful experience to learn from them. Yeah.
Jack (24:52)
I’m just kinda thinking in terms of like how I would do something like this here. do you recommend just starting in your neighborhood?
Comrade Cam (24:58)
honestly, I think it depends, you know, if maybe you live in a neighborhood that you feel doesn’t really need that much find you know, assistance with food or clothing or this or that. Find somewhere that you know does. You know, it only takes setting up a table, buying a few grocery items, buying a few things and giving it away. Anybody can do that, you know.
Comrade Cam (25:24)
You can find a public park and do this in most places and it’s not against the law. and it is a huge help, even if you only help, you know, a few people. I also know that there are sort of Facebook groups or social groups that are online, maybe Reddit groups where people reach out for help. Just help You know, if it’s a small thing, if it’s you’re helping make a a meal for
Comrade Cam (25:54)
a mum who just had a baby, you know, like all these efforts, all these things, anybody can do and it helps every single time.
Jack (26:03)
I think it’s in the handbook or somewhere where it’s like I read, the mutual aid isn’t just about giving the aid, it’s about having an opportunity to then educate and connect. And can you kinda talk on what does education mean and look like in your work?
Comrade Cam (26:23)
one of our favorite spots is in part of Atlanta that is real close to the Capitol. You see this big golden dome and a big huge building full of beautiful people in suits and everything. And right down the street is our little neighborhood where we go to and we do mutual aid and and is suffering. And I realized that this is the time where I can talk to people about their mental freedom, their ability to see themselves
Comrade Cam (26:53)
as their as they should see themselves and not as how this golden dome has defined them. You know, when we talk to people we’re talking about revolution, revolution of your mind and your heart. You know, I was talking to someone who had an ankle bracelet on and he thought he didn’t really have any more options. He was a bad person and I wanted to tell him, You’ve got all the options in the world. You have all the freedom that you need. And it will never come from a system that wasn’t designed
Comrade Cam (27:23)
To to to hold you in the best light. It was not designed to make you feel like you’re free. It was designed for you to assimilate. It was designed for you to find a role and play that role. And when you don’t play that role and now you’re a bad person. You know, when you carry all of these echoes, this generational trauma, and you walk through your life trying to figure out how do I play this role? How do I fit in this?
Comrade Cam (27:52)
System. How do I fit in this society when I’ve got all these echoes of pain and trauma inside of me? And that society tells you because you couldn’t hold it properly. You didn’t you didn’t know what you’re doing with that that pain and trauma. You made a mistake and now it’s done forever. That’s not fair, and it’s not right, and it’s not true. You’ve got to take a second and talk to people about that. There’s a lot of people holding pain. You’ve got to stop and look at them and tell them.
Comrade Cam (28:21)
You are free already. You can be free from this pain that somebody gave to you, that you carry around. You can be free from a mistake because now is the time, not yesterday. And honestly, when you walk with that freedom, your future’s gonna look a lot brighter. It’s gonna feel a lot lighter. You know, you finally smile and it’s a real smile because you made that for yourself. You don’t need to
Comrade Cam (28:50)
You don’t need to walk with the definition of this golden dome. Look at this golden dome. It’s crumbling under its own weight of corruption. Why would I want my life to be defined by that? You know, I can go back for generations and see it’s never been right. It was never made for the human heart or freedom. I don’t need to be defined by that.
Jack (29:16)
really powerful. Again, I have I have goosebumps and I think, you know, whenever I have like a conversation’s touch on the consciousness element is always when I like I just really come alive because I think that is that’s the core of it all, right? And I like I’ve been so surprised reading Marx and Engels how much they write about consciousness and freedom of the
Comrade Cam (29:40)
Okay. Yes.
Jack (29:41)
mind. I never expected that. I I thought it was gonna be
Jack (29:44)
These very dry,
Jack (29:45)
and I’ve just been so surprised that like they were so, you know, thought so much about the mind and freeing first the mind and your consciousness and the level of consciousness of the people. And I think that is that’s that’s it.
Comrade Cam (30:00)
Those revolutionaries go back.
Comrade Cam (30:02)
Yeah, they go back to that every time. Even when Malcolm X took his Hajj, he had to go somewhere by himself, do something like that on his own. Get away from all of the strings of the culture he was in to find a place in his mind where he could see a new form of freedom. Every every teacher I’ve ever had
Comrade Cam (30:28)
every revolutionary I’ve read that I felt really understood, they go back to the mind. It’s the one thing I think that this is the system wants. They want your mind. It’s so valuable to them, so don’t give it to them.
Jack (30:44)
think so and I think I especially see it with social media and phones in the way that they have so captured our attention. I’ve I had to get on ADHD meds last year because I could not pull my attention away from my my screens. it it really got to this point where I’m
Jack (31:04)
I my attention was just captured, even though I by that point I had done twelve ten day silent retreats. So you would think I would have enough training to be able to direct my mind,
Jack (31:16)
What I’m getting at is there is right, like how the the the the magnificent seven in the stock market, the seven biggest companies are all tech companies. They are their entire job, their trillions of dollars is spent to capture our attention and to
Comrade Cam (31:35)
Yeah.
Jack (31:35)
extend our time on their platform. So I think you’re completely right because that’s something that I’ve identified is if I am so
Jack (31:45)
captured and I’m just rage and all these emotions, then I have nothing left to actually take action. I’m curious with your background in just your all of your life experience, like what what what do you tell people? what are the practical steps
Jack (32:05)
To help someone, like you said, you you meet them and they’re he has an ankle bracelet on. what I like about Vipassana practice is it’s a practice and it’s it’s a thing that you can do. So what is what’s your practice and what are you sharing with people on how the the tangible steps of gaining freedom of the mind?
Comrade Cam (32:22)
The first thing I think is just human connection. It’s good for you and good for them. You know, like you said, like we’re all being sucked into all of this. I think the one solution is touch. You know, I have a son who has ADHD and I know I can break that. him getting lost and all of that by a hug or touch, you know. But that connection is going to help break the barriers.
Comrade Cam (32:51)
You know, a lot of people are afraid to approach certain communities because they feel they don’t have a connection. When you do something like mutual aid, when you bring something, it’s almost like a peace offering, saying, I’m not here to hurt you, I’m not here to make any money from you, I’m not here to take advantage of you, I’m just giving something and hoping that it helps. And it
Jack (33:14)
How often
Jack (33:14)
do you run into that where people are suspicious b because that would be my first thought, is like, whoa, what do these people want?
Comrade Cam (33:21)
A lot of people are like, are you gonna sell us something? I’m like, No, it’s free. And they’re like, For real? And I’m like, for real But now people know us, you know, they see us in our uniform, you know, they s they know Black Panthers. And when we walk up they’re like, Yeah it’s great because now it’s we’ve broken down those barriers so much. Just in the few months in one place or a year in another place, everybody comes out.
Comrade Cam (33:48)
Kids come out, music starts playing, people start grabbing boxes and bringing it up to the table. People start reaching in and distributing with us. You know what I mean? Like it’s a whole community event. Because we have just slowly broken down those barriers through that human connection.
Jack (34:07)
it makes me want to be part of this because I recognize like that is a thing that I lack so much, right? Like in a day I I might talk to two other people and I’m just in my little apartment and and we’re so we are so atomized by
Jack (34:25)
the system, right? even aside from meeting the material needs of people, sounds to me like the the more important factor is the fact that you’re meeting the spiritual, human level connection need.
Comrade Cam (34:40)
That’s right. It brightens everybody. I mean, honestly, some of the neighborhoods we go into, they got a huge speaker and camera and it’s it it sounds like the, you know, they’re going to lie to you, G. I like it’s crazy. Like, you know, they’ll be standing outside talking to each other and then they’ve got this thing, loitering is not allowed and blah blah and it’s like what you’re doing to people, you’re breaking their spirit. You’re breaking them down. It’s in almost all of our black neighborhoods here.
Comrade Cam (35:11)
And I see the control, the mental control, the spiritual control that’s happening. So when we do this, nobody even cares about that thing. Nobody’s paying attention to it. Nobody’s feeling it’s just it’s like white noise, it’s gone. You can’t break my spirit when my mind is so strong and my community’s together and enjoying themselves. You can’t do that. You can’t take that from us. So I feel like it is about that.
Comrade Cam (35:40)
Yes, we’re giving out food and paper towels because people are struggling and that also alleviates it it opens up, you know, someone’s mind in a in a whole bunch of ways. You know, can you imagine trying to decide, hey, can I pay my light bill? Can or do I need to buy divers? You know what I mean? There how am I gonna get the money for, you know, this this rent? Yeah and also make sure that my kid has school supplies and
Comrade Cam (36:09)
They can go to the doctor, they gotta go to the dentist and you know, how can I get there? I don’t have a car. Like all these things really weigh down on people. People need to come together and they need, you know, a smile and laugh and and they need all of that to help break them
Jack (36:25)
Yeah.
Comrade Cam (36:25)
from this. It’s a cycle. It it’s it’s been laid down by the system in cement and it’s like the grass growing through. You can break that. You
Jack (36:34)
Mm-hmm.
Comrade Cam (36:35)
think that that’s something that’s permanent it can be broken.
Jack (36:40)
I I’m curious, have you seen in this last year the tangible impacts of like the policy of cutting snap, of cutting Medicaid?
Comrade Cam (36:48)
We all do. all of our or organizing friends, and allies and group everybody’s feeling that. Our community talks about that, talks about how they’ve lost SNAP or how they have to figure out a way to reapply because suddenly they they they’ve been given a letter saying they have to prove some sort of level qualification or something, making it more difficult for people to to get just basic needs.
Comrade Cam (37:18)
Also our our you know, food banks have lost a a lot of grants, they’ve lost a lot of resources that people depend on. So it’s been very, very hard. It’s it’s a systematic attack on just survival. Yeah. That’s why I think it’s real important we just come together, just go out. Just find a way, a time, any day or time and find a place if you if your neighborhood’s not in need, find another neighborhood.
Comrade Cam (37:48)
Find a corner where you’ve seen our unhoused friends waiting around for help or assistance or bang. Go out there and just give it.
Jack (37:59)
Is this something that they could message your chapter and somebody that wants to do this? Because I I’m imagining if I were wanting to do this, like I would just feel, fear, feel anxiety, it would feel a lot better if someone were like, here’s how you do it. Like, is that something that you could help people with?
Comrade Cam (38:13)
Yeah, you can come on with us.
Comrade Cam (38:15)
Yes, you can. And I will say we’re not scared, we are always armed. That is a part of being a Black Panther. now I don’t wan ever wanna have to I don’t ever wanna have to to use that. But I know it’s not for my community members. I’m not afraid of my community members. I’m afraid of the police that beat my community members, break the arms of our unhoused friends.
Comrade Cam (38:42)
and come and throw our mutual aid tables around and things like that. This is for our us to protect the people. When people come with us, they don’t feel afraid of us and they don’t feel afraid to be in that space with us ‘cause they know that we’ll take care of them.
Jack (38:58)
Yeah, so that’s a good point on in the handbook it says we are a militant organization and it says every Black Panther should have two two weapons and two thousand rounds of ammunition. And I think at first glance, you know, especially someone more centrist, more liberal minded, like that would be really scary when they read this. They’re like,
Comrade Cam (39:20)
Okay.
Jack (39:20)
this sounds illegal, this sounds, you know, whatever, too far for me. Like, yeah, can you just expand on kind of the thought process?
Jack (39:28)
process behind being armed just talk about the legalities and speak to people’s fears about people just have so much bias and fears and a lot rightfully towards weapons, right? So just speak to that please.
Comrade Cam (39:43)
first of all I would say whatever we do we do in accordance with our local laws. You know, hey this is Georgia, this isn’t New York, this isn’t you know another state. we we are allowed to open carry here. We are allowed to have ammunition in our homes. We are allowed to do that. The first thing I want people to do is make sure that they go through the process of learning with a professional. How do you properly and responsibly
Comrade Cam (40:13)
Own a weapon. Find the right weapon for you, for your situation. Make sure that you train with that weapon with a professional and do it regularly so that you know what you’re doing. because every weapon, I mean honestly, it’s it could be very destructive if you don’t know what you’re doing. but I think that looking at what’s going on right now with
Comrade Cam (40:43)
literally watch people drag people from their cars into unmarked vehicles and vans and things like that. The idea is for us to create a a society that does not allow that to happen. You know, you feel powerless when you see someone walk up to you and they’ve got big vests and they’ve got pepper spray, they’ve got, you know, gobs now, they’ve got a electric gloves. you do feel powerless and you see that the community feels powerless, but
Comrade Cam (41:12)
Do you really think that they would do that if they were approached by ten or fifteen people in that community who said, You’re not gonna come into our community and they were all armed themselves. I don’t think that would happen the same way. And I think that it’s only to defend our our freedom to live. It’s not about looking for you know it’s it’s not about agitation. It’s not about looking for a problem. It’s simply about stopping
Comrade Cam (41:42)
honestly what looks like a Gestapo or fascist regime from coming in and abusing people. You know. If I was a mother, which I am, if I’m if somebody was taking my child, I would do anything that I could. I would do anything to stop that. Even if it meant giving my life. Because that’s my child.
Comrade Cam (42:04)
if we had the same attitude about each other and said, We’re not allowing you to take our community members. We’re not allowing you to come in and be our children. We’re not allowing you to just storm into our lives, disrupt them, dismantle them, and then leave without without a a thought and with no way for justice.
Jack (42:25)
and I think like what you see time and again is that when the community does come together, like even when they’re unarmed, when there are enough people, they ICE and you know feds and whoever they feel they you know human beings understand the power of a crowd to tear you apart if they wanted to. And
Comrade Cam (42:46)
Yes.
Jack (42:47)
Having the ability to escalate doesn’t mean you have to escalate. And having the ability to escalate often means that things don’t escalate because you know the other side understands there are real consequences to them if they escalate.
Comrade Cam (43:02)
Right. One of our October tenth, I didn’t mention this earlier, but October tenth we have a community defense meeting. It’s a whole action plan. It’s a part of that plan that’s got all of these pods, the mutual aid, legal aid. w one of those pods is an observation pod, for example. everybody’s got a phone. We just talked about that. if you’re not comfortable
Comrade Cam (43:28)
holding and training so that holding a weapon and training with that weapon. I’m sure you’re comfortable with your phone. And we’ve seen how, you know, just a few people observing police activity or ICE activity, recording that information can be used to save a life, can be used in the court of law. that’s a really powerful thing to do. Part of our community action and defense plan is having a pod.
Comrade Cam (43:58)
where we have volunteers who observe police activity and ICE activity together. we have far more interactions with police. We probably each see the police here in America like twice a day, I would say, on your way to work, lunch, or walking your dog. and if you were in a community that decided to safely train ha yourselves how to properly and safely observe
Comrade Cam (44:27)
police activity. If you see someone getting stopped, you know, if you see police, you know, wanting to interact with a community member, just stopping and observing them from a safe distance and doing it properly. Then taking that data and making sure that it’s in a safe place for the people. I mean that’s I think a huge part of the defense of our communities. It doesn’t have to be everybody holding a weapon. but it can be as simple as that. It could be as simple as five or six people
Comrade Cam (44:57)
observing an incident and taking that information and keeping it safe for that person who’s the victim.
Jack (45:04)
Because that was that that is the history of the Black Panthers, right? Black Panthers started as armed observers in California
Comrade Cam (45:11)
That’s right.
Jack (45:12)
observing the police and not not doing anything else, just being present and observing, but also armed. And
Comrade Cam (45:17)
That’s right. That’s
Comrade Cam (45:19)
right. it’s important. we need that balance. You know, if you have a an entity that feels it can do anything it wants, it can be armed, it can put it you know, they can put their hands on people, they can destroy property, they can use a flock camera and accuse you of something and it’s wrong. You know, there’s a there’s an imbalance of power. And honestly, this is an entity that’s supposed to serve the community.
Comrade Cam (45:47)
You know, they should be going out of their way to learn our names, learn our needs, advocate for us when when something’s wrong, you know. They should be looking for our missing people. They should be investigating our deaths thoroughly. You know, that’s not happening. And instead we’re being abused. Instead we’re having too many interactions, that again fully display an imbalance of power. So I think
Comrade Cam (46:15)
This is about bringing power back to the people. This isn’t about agitation. It’s not about looking for problems. It’s about making sure that there’s some sort of checks and balances and it’s coming from the people, the very the very group of people that this entity is supposed to be serving.
Jack (46:33)
the point of all of it is consciousness I think similarly the point of a weapon is not to go commit violence it’s about the power inherent within and saying like we also people deserve this power you you know the state should not have a monopoly on
Jack (46:55)
on this power and it it changes the mindset too, right? in Missouri, everywhere I go, I have a Glock 48 on my hip. especially in more recent years. And it changes, it changes my mindset because I’m not out there looking to you know create trouble or start violence or do anything. But I know that if something, you know, if racist came at me or whatever,
Jack (47:23)
I have another option. And that completely changes the way I carry myself. It changes the way I interact with people. And because it it changes the power dynamics and the power balance, right? And so I think I think that, you know, it comes back again to consciousness. It’s that
Comrade Cam (47:41)
Yes.
Jack (47:42)
know the the way that the internet sensationalized and
Jack (47:45)
And just this idea that people marching with guns, like that gets the headlines. in speaking with you and hearing and hearing about what you you guys do, like the the real headline is the community building and the and the mutual aid and and all of all
Comrade Cam (47:58)
Right. Right.
Jack (48:01)
of that and you know and this the the being armed part is just just a small, you know, a small subset where you’re addressing
Jack (48:12)
the power imbalance and that, you know, right, because now everyone attending your mutual aid community event feels safer and feels more secure.
Comrade Cam (48:22)
and honestly when we ask them, okay, you know, what are you worried about are you worried about anything? It’s the police. They’re worried about the police. And honestly, they have a reason to be. and I don’t I understand that people feel differently about that, but come to our communities. Come see what we’re talking about. You know. Come live and walk in their shoes and you’ll understand.
Comrade Cam (48:51)
Why people are afraid of that? Why they claim abuse? It’s happening. It’s not being d reported, it’s not being investigated, but it’s happening to people.
Jack (49:02)
I want to go back and touch on you had mentioned that you like you have programs for bringing in monks and bringing in teachers to teach mindfulness and and those topics. what are you teaching people and how is it received in the community?
Comrade Cam (49:21)
well you know that we had the Walk for Peace come through Georgia and a lot
Jack (49:26)
All right, yeah.
Comrade Cam (49:26)
of people really came the it’s their first time to see a monk, they didn’t know what to think. but he brought they brought so much joy. You know, there’s so many kids out there that were so curious and just so happy, you know. and the community itself, I mean, people were in tears because they just wanted a piece of joy, you know. A little piece of peace.
Comrade Cam (49:50)
And so I thought, well, maybe we could just keep that going. You know, they did the walk for peace, but we have monasteries here. they’re all through Atlanta. We have a few in Atlanta and then we work with the Atlanta Meditation Center. and we have Venerable Bon Venerable Bonte. He comes and he teaches meditation for us. and they love it. People have come people came from Alabama to come.
Comrade Cam (50:19)
sit with us in a park and learn from Venerable Bonte. And I don’t think that people care at all about it’s not about religion, it’s not about, you know, you can come and be a Christian, you can come and be a Muslim, you can come and be non religious. It doesn’t matter because the point is looking at our minds, you know. Learning how to hold those things that are difficult to hold. Learning how to
Comrade Cam (50:47)
you know, the basics of meditation, the sitting, breathing properly, learning about what a thought is, how you know, we’re not trying to escape our thoughts, we’re trying to hold them properly and trying to observe them in a way. You know, that kind of training I think can help anybody. And that’s what people have said after the fact that this was really helpful for me. I had this thought in my head and I I kept
Comrade Cam (51:16)
holding on to it, I didn’t realize I was holding on to it rather than observing it, for example. So again it speaks back to, you know, just the basic need of working on your own freedom. Everybody needs that. So if there is a you know, a preacher or if there’s any mom or anybody who wants to come and talk about how do you find liberation, they’re welcome to come. I just know that
Jack (51:43)
Mm.
Comrade Cam (51:43)
this is a path that worked for me and I
Comrade Cam (51:45)
saw that so many people were excited and I thought, Let’s try it and it’s really been successful so far. We have another one coming up on the nineteenth of September. So
Jack (51:56)
one of the things that has drawn me so much to Vipassana Gwenka makes a huge point about this is non-sectarian, this is non-dogmatic, this is just a practice and just try it. And and if it helps
Comrade Cam (52:01)
Yes. Yeah.
Jack (52:05)
you, keep it. If it doesn’t, you know, try something try something else. And I really like the teaching of it’s like, but but you know, dig one well. So find something that works for you and just keep digging down because you know, if you try
Comrade Cam (52:16)
Yes.
Jack (52:17)
to dig ten different wells
Jack (52:19)
You’re never gonna hit the water. So and that’s so for
Comrade Cam (52:21)
Yeah.
Jack (52:23)
me that’s that’s what’s that’s what works. This is the well that I’m I’m digging. I’m curious about your own. Do you maintain like a daily practice?
Comrade Cam (52:32)
you know, lately I haven’t been as disciplined as I should have been. I think that I haven’t been holding on to some of the things that the things that we’ve seen or experienced here, you know, we do patrol every day and that has been really heavy and I look forward to the meditation practice with Venerable Bonte for that reason too. but at home we do practice meditation here and
Comrade Cam (53:00)
I try to make sure that, you know, in the morning, in the evening, when I say something I shouldn’t, when I do something, you know, maybe out of frustration or haste, you know, I’ll take a second and come back to my breath at least. So I’m trying my best.
Jack (53:18)
Yeah, that’s that’s great. And just for the viewer, like it it really isn’t anything esoteric. It’s like as I’m sitting here, like I am trying to feel I’ve got like tingling in my hands right now. And so I’m trying to keep maintain awareness of that sensation even as we have a conversation. And then every once in a while, when I remember to, I’ll like feel the breath coming in, and that those little
Comrade Cam (53:38)
Right.
Jack (53:38)
things just kind of ground me, and then with that practice, and then I you know just more through the day become aware of like, I have pains, or I’m thinking about this, or I’m ruminating on that, or I’m
Jack (53:47)
craving this or fearing that and just the more awareness I can bring to it, the more it, you know, it’s it’s like you don’t need to do anything else, the the awareness and like you said, like holding the space for like, if I’m unaware, my reaction will be to push negative, you know, push fears, push anger away. And it’s that suppressing of it that makes it come out again and multiply. And
Jack (54:13)
and gr and worse, but if I can just hold these things, then they can they arise and they and they pass away. yeah, and I f I find that
Comrade Cam (54:21)
We don’t have the opportunity
Comrade Cam (54:23)
to learn that, you know. We go to school and they talk and they say, What do you want to be when you grow up? You know, what do you want to do? What kind of job do you want to have? But nobody’s sitting there saying, Are you noticing that you’re breathing? You know? How
Jack (54:36)
Yeah.
Comrade Cam (54:37)
many breaths have you taken in the last minute? Did you know? Like how many steps did it take for you to get here? You know, we’re not really taught awareness and that in and of itself can solve a lot of problems, you know.
Comrade Cam (54:48)
it can lead you to the right kind of mindset to to again look at the things, those generational echoes of trauma, the things that are going on around you, with a completely clear view instead of clouded, you know.
Jack (55:06)
That’s right. what if kids were taught you can find happiness and peace right now. And that no
Comrade Cam (55:12)
Yeah.
Jack (55:12)
matter it doesn’t matter all the things that you’re craving, that you know, the TV and TikTok is telling you that you you have to have, you know, just just be aware and and once you get some of those things, recognize that you’re not satisfied and you’re not happy. And you know, if we could just teach people
Jack (55:32)
To find the peace right here and that’s right, that’s a lesson for me constantly, constantly. I I always forget, but once I can remember, I get so caught up like with my with my recent stuff, with my online stuff. I’m like, well, if nobody’s watching the videos and if I can’t do more hikes, then how am I gonna this or that? And it’s like it doesn’t matter. Like if I can be happy and okay right now, it none of that stuff
Jack (55:57)
matters
Jack (55:58)
know, more recently with just ICE and last year I worried so much like are they gonna cancel my passport? are they gonna seize my bank accounts? And and it’s again it’s like, you know what? Like if you can find that peace here, if those things come to pass, you can still have that peace. But you know, the o other way around trying to control all of these externalities and you know you you never can and
Jack (56:26)
Even if everything goes perfect, you’re still not gonna find the peace and the happiness and
Comrade Cam (56:29)
That’s right.
Comrade Cam (56:31)
That’s right. I’m sure that if they had so much peace, all these trillionaires and billionaires, they wouldn’t be causing so much destruction. They wouldn’t keep wanting more and more and more. But they’re hungry ghosts. You’re just forever
Jack (56:44)
I a hundred
Comrade Cam (56:45)
unsatisfied.
Jack (56:47)
Hundred percent like that g that gives me some measure of satisfaction to know how
Comrade Cam (56:51)
Yeah.
Jack (56:52)
unhappy Trump and Elon Musk and Peter Thiel have to be because they have everything. They have everything they ever wanted and they must realize and I’m still so miserable and like you know how how bad I must feel. Yeah, so
Comrade Cam (57:03)
That’s right. It must really suck. But you know
Comrade Cam (57:10)
I don’t know. I can see. They don’t know where their minds are. They’re totally controlled by so much but they aren’t controlling anything themselves. And when we’re
Jack (57:21)
That’s right.
Comrade Cam (57:22)
with our community members, that’s how it feels, right? When they’re telling us a new law’s come out or
Comrade Cam (57:28)
some awful thing, ICE is raiding, ICE is doing this. It’s good to know what’s going on. But it’s also good to know for our communities that they cannot control you. No matter what they do. What would you do if you were locked up in jail? I mean you’re there. You’ve got to find a way into your own
Comrade Cam (57:51)
Happiness. You’ve got to find a way through your mind to see that you are fine and everything that you need is right there. It has always been right there. They could take everything from you, let it go. Because the thing that they can never take is that. It’s the most important thing. Putting an emphasis on that. That is your real freedom.
Jack (58:13)
That is again goosebumps. And I I think that’s right. If there’s one one thing that I want people to learn and to witness from our talk, I think I think what you just said right there. And it it makes me think of Victor Frankel’s Man Search for Meaning,
Jack (58:33)
Victor Frankel was in the Holocaust, he was in the concentration camps, you know, he survived just horrific things. and he wrote about his experiences after the fact. And what he recognized is that it again, it came down to people’s consciousness. And he said, you know, like it was still they could take everything away from you physically, your physical freedom, you know, everything, but you still had a choice ultimately whether you
Jack (59:00)
gave up still. Like they can never take that choice away from you. And that has always stuck with me.
Comrade Cam (59:04)
That’s right. Yeah,
Comrade Cam (59:06)
it’s true. I mean, it’s it is freeing, right, to know that you can do anything that you want. And you’ll never win. You’ll never win. There’s nothing
Jack (59:19)
Yeah.
Comrade Cam (59:19)
to win. But like that that to me was something I I want.
Comrade Cam (59:26)
people to understand when they when they talk to their communities, when they decide that they wanna set up a mutual aid table at a a neighborhood or apartment complex or somewhere anywhere, if they wanna organize together and talk to their other organizers and say, Okay, how are we gonna come up with a real comprehensive plan and get everybody involved and let’s do the door knocking and let’s go right to the community. You got to make sure that at the end of all of that
Comrade Cam (59:56)
your human connection and and your decision to be free, no matter what the the headlines, no matter what, you come back to that. You make that the most important part of this, that they are free and it is all up to them. It is not up to the golden dome.
Jack (01:00:16)
That’s that’s love. I think that’s a perfect perfect place to end.
Jack (01:00:23)
I really hone in on this question of you know, helping people’s minds because I think right that is like until people can free their minds, they can’t take any meaningful action.
Jack (01:00:35)
And and that’s where I think so many people are at is they’re just stuck in this rolling in just the pain of the world and all the fears
Comrade Cam (01:00:46)
To me that’s the important start start small. Start with a mutual aid table. It’s gonna heal you and that person that you’re talking to. You know, start small, even it’s just you and one other person. You gotta start somewhere. And I think that’s a really important place to start that connection. It is healing. Mm.
Jack (01:01:07)
Yeah, I love you’ve inspired me. I gotta I and I’m so I’m in Berlin now and there’s so many wonderful leftist organizations, so I gotta find one that’s doing mutual aid and go join yeah, you’ve really inspired me.
Comrade Cam (01:01:18)
I’m gonna do it.
Comrade Cam (01:01:21)
It’s awesome. It’s it’s our favorite part. It’s really our favorite part.
Jack (01:01:27)
Yeah, thank you. I mean thank you again so much for your time
Jack (01:01:30)
the work internally is so important rather than you know, you can read all the Marxist books you want, but like
Jack (01:01:36)
Just speaking with you, I can feel your heart. I can feel your heart. And I think that must come across to everyone you meet. And and I think that’s so powerful.
Comrade Cam (01:01:43)
I hope so. my voice.
Comrade Cam (01:01:48)
It was real nice for meeting and I really appreciate you sharing your story with me too.
